Last year, kids with 3.5 from top IVY (think WHYP) got into GS, MS, JPM. Students with 3.5 also got into BX.
In another top tier Ivy (WHYP), kids placed into private equity like BX, GS- SSG, JPM, MS etc.
Kids with lower GPA got into CS, BAC, and UBS etc.
I do not think it is true at all.
Definitely not true. I had a mid-3.7 from a semi-target and got an offer from MS/GS. Only comments I got on my GPA was that it was very strong.
Could you please tell me how you broke in the industry with that? I'm getting ready for full-time recruitment thats coming up in the fall and I'm a 3.3 from a non-target with strong experience and well-rounded, 3.8-looking muufuucka (but I happen to be at a 3.3 because of a bad freshman year).
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Best Response
As someone who used to review target resumes at a BB during my first and second year as an analyst, here is what we did.
- You take your pile and get rid of everyone below a 3.0, unless they have a connection on the recruiting team pulling for them.
- You look at the people with between a 3.0 and a 3.5 and you see if they are in a really hard major (double econ/major or something like that). If you meet the it was a hard major I'll give you the benefit, you get kept for another look.
- You look to see if people in that range also have amazing experience, then they get kept around.
- You take the remaining pile, which is now probably half of the size and cull it based on overall quality.
Once you have a pile of people you think are strong (approximately the number of interview slots open), you sit down with the rest of the team and compare notes. In two years of being on the recruiting team at a BB we only gave interviews to about 3 people with under a 3.0 (they all had major connections) and a handful with less than a 3.5.
A GPA of a 3.7+ can make up for weaker experience, but is by no means a gimme. Banks prefer good experience to good GPAs (subject to a minimum in the 3.3-3.5 range).
--There are stupid questions, so think first.
Good insight PowerMonkey
People put too much focus on the GPA. Yes, it is incredibly important, yes it is used to weed out undesirable candidates, and yes having a strong GPA does help your candidacy. That said, adjusting your GPA by a few hundredths or a tenth is not going to make or break your candidacy at all once you get over the 3.3 or so hurdle. Furthermore, once you get over a 3.5, you begin to look like everyone else who holds a strong GPA. The difference between a 3.6 GPA and a 3.8 GPA really isn't much to recruiters - both strong GPAs - at that point it becomes what else do you have to offer - experience, ECs, school name, etc.
A 3.5 from a Target is not going to get you dinged by any means - focus on the presentation of the rest of your resume and selling all of your experiences - if you are sitting at a Target school with a 3.5, 3.6, 3.8, etc GPA, you are in good shape from a GPA standpoint. For more on GPAs, check this out:
http://www.bankonbanking.com/2009/09/20/rounding-your-gpa-and-other-gpa…
and worked at a MBB over summer and is at Goldman Sachs IBD TMT
PiperChiangAccent:
and worked at a MBB over summer and is at Goldman Sachs IBD TMT
From my experience at a semitarget: All I/friends needed to get ibd interviews from everywhere from gs to pjc was a 3.5 + good experience (though when they're only interviewing 6-12 kids there are people with credentials like that who don't get interviews). However, MBB are much more stringent with grades for ocr. I know a number of kids with 3.5/6 + hedge fund/consulting experience who didn't get mbb interviews.
I have a 3.3 from a non-target, yet still very reputable school (Liberal Arts), and still got interviewed by 4 BB firms. I had a very hard dual major combo as well (Econ & Chinese). Three of the four of these interviews came directly through online applications. Granted I had great experience, 6 months at a BB in PBIG, summer internship at BB with Advisory, and another summer S&T internship with MM. So, I'd have to say past experience def. helps get over a sub-par GPA.
a networking connection can often help you bypass any HR-imposed cut-off.
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I had a 4.0 when recruiting for internships last year, and I was only able to get first rounds with about 60% or less of the BBs/boutiques that came on campus. My experiences were somewhat weaker compared to classmates who had slightly lower GPAs (3.7-3.9 range) but received nearly every 1st round they applied for. In addition, in many of my first round interviews, I was asked the question, "what do you do for fun" which I inferred as, "ok you got a 4, but do you have a life?" I didn't move past any rounds that asked that question.
So, I would definitely say experience > GPA after a certain (3.7 seemed to the cutoff at my school) threshold. I realized that and slacked off this semester, losing the 4, for better or worse.
I'd say the minimum is between 3.4 and 3.5, but you should be around 3.6.
Less than a 3.5 from a non target but still wiggled my way into BB interviews. Landed at an EB. I would say that getting a foot in the door if you're lacking a stellar GPA has everything to do with experience and self-marketing. Don't let arbitrary cut offs hold you back
From what I have seen/heard, the GPA cut-off for BB in the US (for NYC and regional offices) ranges from 3.2 - 3.5. These are the numbers that the firms publish during recruiting; however, I am pretty sure the BB firms weed out most resumes below a 3.6 unless there is some major connection you have to the firm or unless you have significant, relevant work experience.
Most of my buddies that have received offers to interview have had GPA's in the 3.7-3.9 range. I have also had buddies receive offers to interview with a 3.5 and great work experience.
To answer your question, keep it above a 3.5. If you don't have relevant work experience I would expect the cut-off to be a bit higher.
Hope this helps!
PS. - I am speaking from my experience with undergraduate recruiting.
FYI, I feel like the cutoff for IBD BB interviews are higher though. Last year, I think it was a 3.7 - 3.8 at targets. This year may be tighter. And getting an offer requires even more...
The thing is, the cutoff varies from person to person. And it all depends on the rest of your resume. Even if you have a 4.0, you won't get an interview if the rest of your resume doesn't support your candidacy. It's difficult to say what the cutoff is. Historically it's been 3.5 and I believe it'll probably stay that way if you have solid extracurriculars and work experience. After a certain point, GPA is really not that important (say a 3.8 vs a 3.9) and it comes down to the rest of your resume. You can't say that no one will look at your resume if you only have a 3.5. Also varies from target to target.
As far as non-targets go, you need as near a 4.0 as possible with a strong resume in other respects. Given that, you need to network your ass off... that's really the most important part.
a 3.7+ should suffice at non-targets to get into a bulge bracket although it might be tougher to get into S&T because there are fewer positions available.
definitely school specific.go to ivey and your sh*t out of luck with 3.3... there are other schools where a 3.5 will be very competitive with the correct major. ask yourself how you compare to your peers and if your not at the top then you have your answer.
There really is no GPA cut off, since so much else on your resume can play a part - namely work experience. Even a 4.0 from a non-target with sh*tty/no WE would struggle to get an interview.
Just keep your grades up and get some SOLID work experience - I had just around a 3.5 from a complete non-target, and had no problems getting BB/laz/ghl interviews. Obviously from there, the GPA is pretty worthless...
My friend had a 3.31 from a non-ivy target, and interned in CS S&T, and will be joining BofA FT S&T. He double majored in math and finance though, so that might have caused recruiters to cut him some slack. He also had great leadership positions...
I know at UT, Deutsche Bank and Greenhill both said at their information sessions a few years ago that they don't look at anyone below a 3.7.
Just wanted to throw in my 2c. This topic should not deter people with lower GPA's to attempt to get into IBD or S&T. In reality it comes down to who you know that can help you out and also previous work experience. In these markets especially have no shame in attempting to speak with alums, friends, friends of friends who are bankers or traders/salespeople. Keep up with the networking and eventually someone will vouch for you. Surprisingly I've successfully used LinkedIn to network with random people. Trying to get in through the front door at most of these places in this macroeconomic environment is going to be difficult to say the least.
Related Topic
GPA Cutoffs (Originally Posted: 05/20/2007)
Hey all,
I've heard different things being thrown around about GPA cutoffs, but I haven't heard anything definitive, so I figured I'd start a thread
What you think is the GPA cutoff to get a first round interview for Investment Banking? (Btw, I know you need a lot more than GPA to get an interview)
Does the cutoff vary for BB vs. boutiques, or IBD vs. other divisions like Research or Investment Management? Does it vary by liberal arts vs. engineering?
Specifically, I have a 3.4+ from an ivy, studying engineering
Responses are well appreciated, but try to back up your opinion in some way. Thanks
Before you get flamed, seriously, use the search function.
The reason there isn't a definitive answer is because it doesn't exist.
I know people with 3.7+ from targets who didn't get first rounds with any BBs (quant major).
On the other hand, I know of humanities majors with below 3.5 who got first rounds with multiple BBs.
It's subjective.
As a general rule of thumb, you have to have above 3.2/3.3 to even apply.
To get a first round, you have to look interesting to the recruiter reviewing your application.
In my opinion, you will probably get interviews with somebody. If you're quant, consider S&T. S&T seems to really respect phys, math, compsci training.
However, I'd worry more about what you are going to say once you have your 30min window. Interviewing is difficult. It is very hard to distinguish yourself from the 10 other 3.4+ engineers they will be interviewing that day.
Yeah I agree with Twitch. The reason why there isn't a definitive answer is because this question is retarded. There are people who are at BBs with lower than 2.0, and there are people there with 4.0. Are you going to make it with a 3.4? Who knows and who gives a sh*t. If you aren't going to make it you aren't going to make it. If you are you are. Stop searching for responses that alay your insecurities.
i go to a target, and although there are certainly candidates who make it through with lower gpas, an overall cutoff does exist. In my eyes it makes sense, because it is, other than maybe SATs, the only true measure of relative performance in regard to your peers, or in this case, your competition.
Having a sub-par gpa (which i would say 3.4 falls into) certainly won't break you, but it will be tougher to get an interview and you may need to have something else on your resume that makes you stand out. Just my 2 cents.
Don't listen to those kids.
A 3.4 GPA from an Ivy is fine but in the danger zone.
The cutoff is around 3.2 for many BB's. At HSBC, for instance, will not accept any banking applications for corporate finance with GPA's below 3.2. Not even a 3.14. For Institutional Sales, however, HSBC will allow a 2.8 GPA.
Some, but not all BB's are relatively insane about the GPA requirement. I would suggest that you study finance/accounting since these are the skills most often used on the job as an analyst.
however, there is far more you must do than maintain the good GPA to ensure employment come senior year.
sternfox:
Don't listen to those kids.A 3.4 GPA from an Ivy is fine but in the danger zone.
The cutoff is around 3.2 for many BB's. At HSBC, for instance, will not accept any banking applications for corporate finance with GPA's below 3.2. Not even a 3.14. For Institutional Sales, however, HSBC will allow a 2.8 GPA.
Some, but not all BB's are relatively insane about the GPA requirement. I would suggest that you study finance/accounting since these are the skills most often used on the job as an analyst.
however, there is far more you must do than maintain the good GPA to ensure employment come senior year.
HSBC is a BB? This is news.
Related Topic
Is there a GPA cutoff? 2015 (Originally Posted: 05/19/2015)
Is there an updated GPA cutoff for BB junior internship opportunities 2015? There used to be a 3.5 or above GPA cutoff (also nontarget or target?) unless there were exceptional work experience or strong networks, and I was wondering what the criteria for the top 3 (GS/MS/JP) as well as for the rest of the BB's were in regards to IBD.
If you have "networked efficiently" then the people in your "network" should be able to tell you where you stand with respect to their respective firms.
@kingkongvodka does that apply to targets or nontargets?
From some stories on here I would guess that it is not true... An acceptable gpa is also going to depend on your major and, I'm guessing, the school you go to.
If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough."There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty f*cking liars."-Louis C.K.
Not true at all, there's a whole range, but I'm sure most are between 3.4 and 3.8. Varying degrees of connections and sheer luck allow your gpa to get lower and lower, I know a kid who has like a 2.6 doing S&T at a BB and I'm not much higher and I'm at a BB doing FO work. I fall under the sheer luck category, right place right time, end of the year when all the top kids already had offers. This is SA btw
Not true at all, there's a whole range, but I'm sure most are between 3.4 and 3.8. Varying degrees of connections and sheer luck allow your gpa to get lower and lower, I know a kid who has like a 2.6 doing S&T at a BB and I'm not much higher and I'm at a BB doing FO work. I fall under the sheer luck category, right place right time, end of the year when all the top kids already had offers. This is SA btw
coRRege024: I'm just curious, but how did those kids get into FO positions and such with such low GPAs? I understand luck also plays a role in all of these things, but I'm from a non-target, have an OK GPA (3.7) and am having trouble finding something at even local boutiques unpaid (forget about BB SA). I don't want to demean those kids in any way because they are clearly doing something right, I just want to know what you think is setting them apart from kids like myself?
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Al Bundy:
coRRege024: I'm just curious, but how did those kids get into FO positions and such with such low GPAs? I understand luck also plays a role in all of these things, but I'm from a non-target, have an OK GPA (3.7) and am having trouble finding something at even local boutiques unpaid (forget about BB SA). I don't want to demean those kids in any way because they are clearly doing something right, I just want to know what you think is setting them apart from kids like myself?
The above examples are far from the norm. Most candidates fall in the 3.7 - 4.0 range; kids with 3.4 - 3.6 GPAs are somewhat common but do not cover the majority of an analyst class. I would wager that less than 10% of an IBD BB analyst class has
Yeah I am, but over there you need to get an MBA before they even look at you (unless you have mad connections). Furthermore, you need an MBA from the very best IIM colleges (ABC maybe L) or ISB to have a shot. Given that you need to be in the 99th percentile out of the 200,000+ people taking the entry test just to get an interview (and even after the interview you are hardly guaranteed a spot at ABC), I'm gonna have to put it on the back-burner for quiteeeeeee a while.
Do you know anyone working in India? That's my first choice but sadly, I've been having no luck here (currently in said country). You can PM me, btw, if you don't want to disclose such info publicly.
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I've seen this about 10 times in the last two weeks and it's been spot on every time... here's the answer you're looking for:
"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
I've networked and had interview in the pasts where they had no idea what my GPA was before giving me the interview and looking at my resume. Honestly, besides when your resume is thrown to someone who has no idea who you are, no one really cares what your GPA is as long as they like you and think you can do the job
I got in with a 3.1. Worked harder then 90% of the people I know, and associates/analysts even told me this.
Do not take no for an answer.
The issue with low GPAs is that you will not stand out during resume selection for campus recruiting teams. You are being considered against other kids from your own school, typically by analysts that are also graduates of your school. This is a big part of where the target/non-target question comes up. Banks use graduates of a select set of schools to recruit those same schools year after year. It is easier for someone who understands how a school works to find the highest quality candidates there.
Each team receives 100s of resumes and simply flips through them discarding as many as possible based on things like GPA (major considered as a factor), work experience and leadership/extracurriculars. They cull them down to the number of slots available for on campus interviews, which depending on the school may be anywhere from 10 or 12 to 30+.
Our team used to have each person make a pile of yes, maybe and no and then we'd go through all of the names alphabetically. If everyone agreed, then the candidate gets put into the selected stack. Those that had mixed reviews went into a maybe stack; the remainder were tossed. After we found out how many more slots we had after all of the selected resumes were accounted for, we would hash out the remaining maybe candidates. This is where networking pays dividends because it can move you over the line one way or the other if you are borderline. If you have 2 candidates on the margin that have all else equal but different GPAs, the lower GPA gets tossed.
The best way to get noticed if you do have a low GPA is to network with the people in charge of campus recruiting at your school. If someone likes you and your resume comes up, they might give you a shot even if your stats come up a little short. Nothing is guaranteed though.
Some schools will have criteria in their on campus recruiting software that require you to meet a certain GPA threshold, usually 3.4 or 3.5.
Related Topic
IB gpa cutoff (Originally Posted: 10/19/2013)
I know that in investment banking, the consensus is that a gpa that of under 3.5 will generally get you dinged, but I was wondering if that is a hard cutoff. I have a gpa around 3.45 and I'm a mathematics and chemistry major. Do they take into account that my gpa is close to the cutoff and that I have very difficult classes, or am I autodinged? I know that this may vary person to person, but does anyone know the general rule here? Thanks guys.
I don't go to a top 25 school. My school is target for some banks (like Citi and I believe JPM), but we are alumni referral for GS, MS, CS, and a bunch of others. It is a tech school, most notable for science/engineering programs, but not an MIT or Caltech level school. I am a part of a really prestigious money management group on campus with a lot of alumni connections, but I am worried my gpa might get me autodinged in a lot of places.
There are really three notable barriers:
Minimum cut off - Usually 3.0 or 3.3, anything below that and getting an interview will be extremely hard even with a strong connection because you have to get past HR.
3.5 - You're probably below average in the pool of applicants. You can get away with this sort of GPA if you're a URM, an athlete, had ridiculous sophmore internship, go to a notably challenging school (princeton/MIT/etc), or have a strong connection to this firm. Otherwise you are unlikely to get an interview even in a target school.
3.7 - At this point in time, you should be worrying about other factors on the resume, and having this gpa doesn't make you a shoo-in by any means.
In terms of "Do they take account that you have very difficult classes", the answer is that alumni are the ones picking for target schools (not always true for non-targets), so your alumni might appreciate the major you are taking on. On the other hand, they don't have very much time to look at your resume and definitely won't have the time to review your transcript or what specific classes you are taking.
Key for you is to network and meet as many of the bank's representatives as possible. you're in tougher than average majors, so if you stand out as an individual at firm events and can demonstrate interest/appreciation for the business, then you should have some folks at most banks seeking to keep you in mix for a first-round. If a bank cuts you automatically for a 3.45, then that says something about the bank that may or may not have impacted your comfort/interest working there anyway. Bottomline, all banks are different, get out and meet them. Good luck.
Yeah, I've been working on networking. I'm admittedly pretty introverted, but I've been working hard to meet with alumni. I know that networking is very important (who you know versus what you know). My worry is that even if I know five alumni at a bank I may get cut before I have my chance to shine (hopefully shine) because my gpa is below the 3.5 mark. Should I round it to 3.5/4.0 instead of 3.45/4.00?
Round up I got an ib offer have a 3.46 made it a 3.5 they can smd
Jamshad:
I would definitely say absolute minimum for interviews 3.4. I attend a top 10 B-School and know of many people with around 3.4 that got interviews at solid to decent boutiques (Lazard , Raymond James, and Tudor, Pickering & Holt) and a BB (BAML) without any connections to these firms. Don't know of anyone who got interviews below that. A lot of these people though didn't end up getting second rounds/offers, but obviously half the battle is all you in the interview.
As far as the difficulty of the major/coursework question I can't say. I can tell you that some of the people mentioned before that applied and got first rounds were pre-med students FWIW so maybe they do?
Ultimately though in your case I think your GPA is fine for getting an interview in Investment Banking. It probably won't be along the lines of GS/MS/JPM or Greenhill/Evercore obviously BUT you will get an interview with an IB firm I am sure.
You're a f*cking idiot. Getting an interview with BAML is no different than getting one at GS. This isn't like college admissions. GS doesn't have a higher GPA cutoff than Lazard because it's higher in the league tables or something.
mp2437:
minimum, it depends on your experience and extra-curriculars. I don't think BB would look below 3.2
At UBS it is 3.0, but obviously to land the interview you have to know someone.
Remember, the key is just getting into the first round. From there, if you can spin a good story about your sh*tty grades, you're on equal footing with everyone else.
Without a referral or some sort of internal contact that could help you out, minimum gpa is 3.6 (based on what i've seen)
It all varies based on the bank and the school. NYU is 3.5 for some, no real cutoff for others (GS and MS were looking for "outstanding credentials," whatever that means), while some were 3.3 and 3.0 (but 3.0 was more or less only Wachovia. Greenhill would only accept apps from those with a 3.6+.
Related Topic
How strict are the GPA minimums? (Originally Posted: 09/21/2013)
Let's say a BB bank has a minimum GPA requirement and you technically don't meet the requirement. If you can network really well and the committee reviewing resumes likes you, would they still be required to throw your resume out?
lol hr has no hiring power. they are just a filter
saints2009:
So my school's career portal mentions BAML has a 3.5 minimum. I've heard of <3.5 getting in, so I just wanted to know.
School career portals suck. Mine won't let you drop your resume if you don't meet the listed GPA minimum.
Quick fix is to just e-mail the recruiter directly or just network with someone at the firm.
saints2009:
So my school's career portal mentions BAML has a 3.5 minimum. I've heard of <3.5 getting in, so I just wanted to know.
School career portals suck. Mine won't let you drop your resume if you don't meet the listed GPA minimum.
Quick fix is to just e-mail the recruiter directly or just network with someone at the firm.
I know people with less than 3.0 at BBs in IBD. It will be difficult if you are coming out of undergrad, GPA will hold more weight, but once you get experience, it doesn't matter anymore.
Array
We've definitely given at least 1st rounds to 3.5ers. Of course they were 'well rounded' people (varsity athletes, lots of extracurrics, hard major, knew them personally, etc.) it's up to them after the first round, but it's a lot easier when you're reading 200 resumes for 12 interview spots to discard the ones with lower gpa's.
the cutoff for a PE analyst position that i interviewed at was a 3.5
srr636:
agree - tons of sub 3.5s at GS from ivy's. if you network your way into an interview, no one cares what your gpa is. and if you can't network your way into interviews when you're at an ivy, you're not trying hard enough.
You don't always have to have a stellar GPA to get a decent position, but generally when you are applying online or at career fair type settings, you will most definitely have your resume discarded unless you know someone that wont just toss it in the shredder.
Recruiters are just looking for people who can get the job done. If you can do the job and someone of some stature can recommend you, that is all the better, its one less spot this person has to fill. Outside of that, the GPA is just one of those "universal" ways in which you can measure different people (along with SAT, ACT, GMAT). Although, I will say that GPAs are far more subjective then many recruiters/employers are willing to concede.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."- Ronald Reagan
I would never turn a person down for a 3.5. I might get concerned if they had a 2.0 or something.
Really, GPA only matters when you go through online applications for on-campus interviews at target schools... if someone networks their way in, it's almost irrelevant.
Possibly for on campus, networking wise, probably not as much
BB firms do not have strict cutoffs.
I've seen a BB posting that asked for a minimum of 3.3
GS doesn't have a minimum GPA. But MS likes to hire guys with high GPAs. depends on the firm.
most people i know use 3 digits.... X.XX
rounding is a little deceptive in my view
StanTheMan87:
if everybody rounds and 3.5 is the cutoff isn't 3.45 the real cutoff? does HR assume people round or something when they make that unofficial cutoff
Assumptions involve thinking which is not applied in HR functions.
It's not just relative to the applicant pool, it's also relative to your whole "package". Did you just go to school? Or were you an RA, part of the undergrad finance club and had a PT job, etc. If you just went to school then the unofficial, official cutoff is about a 3.4.
Related Topic
Minimum GPA when applying (Originally Posted: 09/19/2008)
Some firms have a minimum GPA when applying. Lets say its says min. GPA of 3.2, and I have about a 3.12. I say I have a 3.2 on my resume. Hypothetically if I got an offer, would they rescind it cause my GPA isn't above 3.2?
you can always make up a short story why you're a great candidate, call HR and ask them if you could apply. i think in most cases they'll say okay to you and let you submit your resume.
or you could just submit the damn thing. BX has given me interviews for divisions where I'm below the minimum GPA cutoff of 3.6.
It's obviously going to depend on who you talk to and what school you're coming from, however, I can tell you that I got interviews from a handful of those places you're mentioning, and I recruited with a 3.5 from a semi-target school. It mostly comes down to networking and showing genuine interest. At this point in the process, your GPA is what it is, so I would suggest you put any thoughts about cut-offs or averages out of your head and just focus on what you can control (which is networking).
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Quia et corrupti suscipit non ipsa assumenda. Placeat ut omnis quia molestiae est provident mollitia. Incidunt sed nihil vel aliquam blanditiis. Quo et autem omnis officia aut. Natus itaque quas repellendus blanditiis ipsum labore. Blanditiis illum assumenda nesciunt a unde esse aut dolorem.
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Life is too short to be on WSO. But here I am.
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